Welcome And Meet The Lawyers

Warren Berg 0:00

Good morning and welcome to the August 2026 edition of Ask the Lawyer Across Alberta on the Windspeaker Radio Network. I'm your host, Warren Berg, and returning to the program this month is Cynthia Carrolls of Weirbowen LLP. And making his first appearance on Ask the Lawyer is Phil Kierman. Welcome to both of you.

SPEAKER_02 0:16

Thank you, Warren. It's a pleasure to be here. Yeah, it's always nice to be back.

Warren Berg 0:19

And Phil, welcome. I look forward to today's conversation. Now, as I understand it, you've practiced law for more than 30 years, but this is your first visit to Ask the Lawyer.

SPEAKER_02 0:29

It is. So if I sound nervous, I'm blaming the host.

Warren Berg 0:33

Sounds fair to me. I usually blame the guests. Yeah. The nice thing is that uh you and Cynthia have worked together for many, many years. So if you get into trouble, I'm assuming that she will help you out.

SPEAKER_02 0:44

Or or correct him. See, we've we've been on the air for less than a minute and that's already started.

Warren Berg 0:49

So, Phil, before we dive into today's topic, I'd like to uh let our listeners get to know you a little bit more. Uh, what drew you into personal injury law in the first place?

SPEAKER_02 0:58

Well, that's a good question. Uh when I was a young lawyer, I realized fairly quickly that I I wanted to practice in an area where I could genuinely help people through some of the most difficult times in their lives. Personal injury law certainly involves legal issues, but at its heart, it's really about people. Sometimes uh someone's life changes in an instant suddenly they're dealing with doctors, insurance companies, financial uncertainty, family pressures, and questions about the future. And I've always believed the law is ultimately about people. Personal injury law just makes that impossible to forget. And I've also been fortunate to work with some outstanding lawyers over the years, and I'm especially pleased to be here today with Cynthia. One of the things I've always appreciated about working with her is that we often approach a problem from slightly different perspectives. We challenge each other's thinking, but we're always working toward the same goal that is helping our clients rebuild their lives. I think listeners will probably hear a little of that throughout today's conversation. If through the legal process we can reduce some of that uncertainty and and help people move forward, then I think we've done something really worthwhile. And that's what's kept me in this area of practice for more than 30 years.

Warren Berg 2:11

And Cynthia, you've worked with Phil for a very long time. Does that sound like the lawyer that you know?

Cynthia Carels 2:16

Yeah, it it actually does. Uh Phil, the elder statesman in the room here today. Uh and you know, one thing that I've really appreciated about working with Phil is that uh he sees the person before he actually sees the legal file. And now that obviously doesn't mean that he's ignoring the legal issues. It, you know, quite the opposite actually, but he never really loses sight of the fact that every file actually represents someone's life. And he is actually the the kind of colleague that I really enjoy working with as well. You know, we don't always start from the same place when we're thinking through a problem, but we will challenge each other in very constructive ways. And I do think that makes both of us better lawyers, and I hope that listeners will hear that today uh in our conversation as well.

SPEAKER_02 2:58

Well, thanks, Cynthia. I'll I'll remember you said that the next time we disagree about something.

Warren Berg 3:03

So speaking about legal challenges, what will we be talking about today?

The Reality Of Invisible Injuries

SPEAKER_02 3:07

Well, today's topic uh is one that affects far more Canadians than many people would realize. Uh, psychological and mental health injuries following accidents and and events that are traumatic. When when most people hear the words personal injury, they picture like broken bones or surgeries, casts, wheelchairs, rehabilitation. But some of the most significant injuries are actually the ones we can't see.

Warren Berg 3:31

And I'll I'll admit something uh before uh preparing for today's program. I assume that psychological injuries after motor vehicle accidents were, well, relatively uncommon, but the more I read, the more I realize that that assumption is probably wrong.

SPEAKER_02 3:46

Yes, I I I think many people have that impression. They they assume psychological injuries only happen after uh extraordinary tragedies. In reality, it's a lot more complicated than that. Two people can have exactly the same traumatic event happen to them and recover very differently.

Cynthia Carels 4:05

Yeah, so that brings us to one of the themes that you're going to be hearing throughout today's program. Uh trauma is not a competition. You know, healthcare professionals are treating individuals as individuals, and they're not comparing one person's recovery uh with another's.

Warren Berg 4:21

I like that. Uh trauma isn't a competition. So maybe Phil, can you give us an example of what we were talking about?

SPEAKER_02 4:28

Uh sure, Warren. So let's imagine someone is driving home from work and she's involved in a serious collision. She suffers uh a number of fractures, but over time she recovers well physically. And friends begin saying, uh, it must be nice to have that behind you. But uh every morning she still sits in her driveway trying to convince herself to start the car. She avoids highways, she won't drive after dark. Uh if she hears tire screeching, her heart starts to race. Eventually she starts saying no to invitations just because she doesn't want to make the drive. The physical injuries healed, but the psychological injuries are still very much affecting her everyday life.

Warren Berg 5:13

And if let's say I met her at a grocery store, I'd have no idea.

Cynthia Carels 5:16

Yeah, exactly. You know, these invisible injuries are still very much injuries, but these ones can be particularly challenging to prove because they're not showing up on an objective test like an X-ray or an MRI. Uh a lot of the evidence actually shows up in behaviors uh or avoidance and some dark places that people really don't like to talk about all that much.

Warren Berg 5:41

So, Phil, has practicing in this area changed you in some way?

SPEAKER_02 5:45

Uh yes, I'd say very much. When I was a younger lawyer, I naturally focused on things I could measure, like fractures or surgeries or hospital stays. And those those are important things, obviously. But but after years of meeting with clients, I realized that some of the deepest uh injuries never show up on an X-ray, and that changed how I practice. I still gather the facts together, but I spend a lot more time uh listening.

Warren Berg 6:12

And Cynthia, would you answer that the same way?

Cynthia Carels 6:15

Mostly, although I might say it a little bit differently, um because people often think that the accident itself is the story. And a lot of times it really isn't. The accident itself might take, you know, 30 seconds to describe in court, but the next year after someone's life or of someone's life after an accident, that's where we're gonna find the real story.

SPEAKER_02 6:36

Aaron Powell Oh, that's that's beautifully put. I may borrow that.

Cynthia Carels 6:39

Phil, you borrow enough lines of mine already.

Warren Berg 6:42

So

First Meetings And Trauma Memory

Warren Berg 6:43

uh Phil, when somebody walks into Weirbowen LLP for the first time, where do you begin?

SPEAKER_02 6:48

Well, usually by reassuring them. Uh most people apologize saying things like, I'm not sh I'm I'm jumping around, or I'm forgetting things, or I'm probably not explaining this very well.

Cynthia Carels 6:58

Aaron Powell Yeah, and honestly, that is all completely normal. Uh traumatic events aren't really remembered by people like chapters in a novel. People remember bits and pieces here and there, and part of our job is to actually help organize those pieces uh when the time is right.

SPEAKER_02 7:14

Right, exactly, and not to judge how well someone tells the story. Aaron Powell So presentation skills aren't part of the interview. Fortunately not. Otherwise, I'd be in trouble.

Cynthia Carels 7:23

Yeah, uh I've seen Phil's handwriting and he's definitely in trouble. Although, to be fair, mine's not a lot better. Um but the good news is that our lawyers at Weirbowen bring what we call a trauma-informed approach to our jobs because the reality is that just about every injury claim we work on involves some degree of trauma. And we want to make sure that our clients uh experience when they're in our office feels really safe for them. We want our interviews to feel like a conversation, uh, not an interrogation. And we know there can be, you know, many very legitimate reasons for a client to have some gaps in the things that they may or may not remember, uh, especially when it comes to psychological and mental health injuries. Aaron Powell And why is that? Well, in reality, trauma can change how our brain works. Uh, periods of intense high stress can flood our bodies with hormones like cortisol. Uh, and that can literally block a brain from turning those sensory inputs into stable long-term memories. Uh so at moments of extreme fear or panic, uh, bodies can overreact or they can, you know, react completely appropriately, uh, but even shut down that normal memory-making system uh that works in our brains. So you might have heard, you know, sometimes people will dissociate uh, you know, as a crisis response to stress. And that can essentially disconnect a brain sort of temporarily, so you know, it doesn't really register as a fully real event. And that can uh lead to blank spots in a person's memory. And then, of course, there may also be literal periods of lost consciousness as a result of a traumatic event, whether it's related to a car accident or an assault or some other trauma, it's not at all unusual for people to actually black out. Uh and in, you know, some more extreme cases they can end up in a prolonged period of unconsciousness, such as, you know, a coma. Uh, and those episodes can be very unsettling. And the longer that they go on, obviously the more concerning they can become.

SPEAKER_02 9:28

Yes, yes. Um in situations like that, we may even be dealing with a uh what's called a traumatic brain injury, and and it's not unusual for victims of that to suffer amnesia or an inability to recall things regarding uh the events that happened before the injury, along with difficulty making new memories after the injury.

Warren Berg 9:51

So when a new client comes in to talk about these kinds of injuries, when do you start talking about lawsuits?

SPEAKER_02 9:57

Well honestly, Warren, law lawsuits aren't the starting point. Uh people are. If someone comes into our office describing nightmares or panic attacks or persistent anxiety, one of the first questions we'll ask is, have you spoken with your family doctor? Recovery comes first.

Warren Berg 10:13

And Cynthia, is that your approach as well?

Cynthia Carels 10:15

Yeah, absolutely. The legal process obviously matters, but it is only one part of someone's life. Uh it's the healthcare professionals that actually help people recover. And so part of our role is to help people understand, you know, their legal rights while that recovery is taking place. And when we're dealing with clients who are experiencing psychological, cognitive, mental health injuries, it's not unusual for them to need a lot more help simply accessing health care than they might otherwise expect.

Finding Care When You Feel Stuck

Warren Berg 10:44

And a lot of people might be asking, isn't health care freely available here in Canada?

Cynthia Carels 10:48

Yeah, and no. Um obviously if someone has serious enough injuries that they end up in hospital, they're going to be able to access the public system until they're stable enough to be discharged. Uh but after that, a lot of people do feel like they are entirely on their own. And to make matters worse, uh, the very injuries that they need treatment for may also be the very thing that's preventing them from being able to coordinate all of that treatment at all. Uh, you know, the days and weeks after a serious trauma can be pretty overwhelming at the best of times. But for victims who are dealing with something like a cognitive impairment or emotional symptoms, it can be next to impossible to figure out how to get help on their own. So unless someone has a good pre-existing relationship with a mental health professional, like a psychologist or a psychiatrist, they might not even know who to call, let alone have the degree of executive functioning that is required in order to make that call to coordinate an appointment.

Warren Berg 11:49

I hadn't really thought of that. But for somebody with a brain injury, I can see why that might really present some barriers.

SPEAKER_02 11:55

And that's that's correct. And it doesn't even need to be as serious as a brain injury. Um like I already uh said before, uh some of our clients with with psychological injuries experience incredible fear and post-traumatic stress-related symptoms that make it difficult for them even to leave their home sometimes. And some of our clients also really struggle with driving, especially if they were injured in a motor vehicle accident. So even if they do get an appointment booked, their next big challenge may be figuring simply how to get from their home to the doctor's office.

Cynthia Carels 12:32

And not to mention the paperwork. After many accidents, the paperwork that needs to be completed can feel like a real avalanche. Uh, and in situations where someone has sustained an injury that has compromised their mental health, it can be difficult to sustain the levels of concentration and attention to detail that's required in order to get that paperwork right. And making mistakes with that paperwork can sometimes be the difference between having treatment paid for or being left to carry those costs alone.

Warren Berg 13:04

Which becomes yet another barrier to accessing treatment.

Cynthia Carels 13:07

Yeah, exactly. But uh thankfully, if there is one thing that we lawyers are notoriously good at, it is paperwork. Uh so before we even think about filing lawsuits, we want to make sure that our clients have been able to tap into the resources that are available to them that can help to fund uh their recovery. So this might be helping them figure out, you know, their employee benefits plan, or perhaps working with their auto insurer to set up an accident benefits file. Because at the end of the day, no amount of money recovered through a lawsuit is going to be as valuable to a victim of a trauma as actually recovering their overall health and wellness.

SPEAKER_02 13:48

Absolutely. I I sometimes tell clients that the lawsuit is one chapter, but your life is the whole book.

Warren Berg 13:55

Phil, I get the feeling that a lot of our listeners are going to remember that line long after today's program is over. Uh so I guess if listeners want to get in touch with you, either with either of you, regarding a legal issue, how can they find you?

SPEAKER_02 14:09

Oh, probably the easiest way is to uh simply look at our website where we have a contact us page at uh the site is we're bowen.com. That's W E I R B O W E N dot com.

Warren Berg 14:28

And if the internet isn't available or isn't a preferred option.

Cynthia Carels 14:31

So we also welcome phone calls to our main line at 780-424-2030. Uh, and our intake team will be happy to talk to you about your inquiry and connect you with a lawyer who can help you out.

Warren Berg 14:45

This is AskTheLawyer across Alberta on the Windspeaker Radio Network, C FWE and CJWE. I'm your host, Warren Berg, along with Phil Kerman and uh Cynthia Carrolls from We're Bowen LLP. So again, to reach the offices of Wearbowen L L P, you can find them online at Weirbowen.com, W-E-I-R-B-O-W-E-N, or by phone 780-424-2030. So,

Why Two People Heal Differently

Warren Berg 15:10

uh just a minute ago, Phil, you said something that's uh really stayed with me. Uh you said the lawsuit is one chapter, your life is the whole book. And I think that's a really wonderful way to frame today's discussion because before we can really understand the legal side of some of these psychological injuries, we first have to understand the people living through them. Absolutely, exactly. So, Phil, here's something that I've generally wondered about. Let's take a situation where two people are in exactly the same vehicle, the same collision, the same impact. One seems to recover fairly quickly, yet the other might struggle for months. Why is that?

SPEAKER_02 15:46

Well, if I knew the complete answer to that, Warren, I'd probably have gone to medical school instead of law school. Uh but seriously, healthcare professionals have studied this question for years. People simply don't respond to trauma in exactly the same way.

Cynthia Carels 16:02

Yeah, you know, that's true for physical injuries as well. Two people can have exactly the same surgery. One person heals really quickly, the other person heals more slowly. Uh nobody really finds that surprising because we are all different. Uh for example, our bodies might have some pre-existing vulnerabilities, uh like old injuries or chronic conditions that impact healing, like you know, diabetes. Um psychological recovery is very similar. Every person is bringing different life experiences, uh, they're bringing different support systems, uh, different coping strategies, and obviously different biology.

Warren Berg 16:39

So comparing yourself to somebody else is probably one of the worst things you can do.

SPEAKER_02 16:44

Usually uh, yes. Uh that uh internal talking or dialogue can be really discouraging uh if people tell themselves uh like the the other driver is already back at work. Or or that, you know, my passenger seems fine, why can't I move on? Uh the better question, I would say, is what do I need to recover?

Cynthia Carels 17:07

Yeah, I mean that's a question that actually leads somewhere positive. Everyone is going to be fighting their own battles and taking their own journey towards recovery, and it's just not going to look the same for any two people. But when we set our minds towards what we personally need for recovery or what our clients need, uh then we can start making some progress. Now, that said, we certainly don't expect our clients to necessarily be able to answer those questions for themselves. For most of our clients, dealing with a traumatic life event is a brand new experience. And, you know, setting up a treatment plan with all of those providers isn't something that just happens naturally. And I honestly see people who develop what I call paralysis by analysis, where they're really overthinking things and ruminating over what they need just to try to make this pain go away. Uh, and that rumination or overthinking can be problematic in and of itself. Uh, people can go on some pretty deep dives these days with you know Google searches and Chat GPT or other AI programs, and that can spiral into a whole new set of problems for somebody who's already dealing with a mental health injury.

Warren Berg 18:16

So, how does getting a lawyer involved help with all of that problem?

Cynthia Carels 18:20

Well, obviously, we are lawyers, we're not doctors, we're not psychologists, but Phil and I happen to know a lot of them, uh, and we can set our clients up for assessments with independent experts who can then provide us with information regarding, you know, what is actually going on here, uh, what sort of treatment might help, and what our clients' longer-term prognosis looks like. Uh so, for example, you know, in my practice, I work with a lot of victims of car accidents, and those can obviously be very scary. My clients might find themselves having flashbacks about the accident out of nowhere, um, or nightmares that disrupt their sleep. And none of that is helpful when they're also trying to recover from physical injuries as well. So when I get the sense that a client is dealing with a mental health concern, I generally will offer them the opportunity to get an intake assessment with a team of psychologists that have helped many of my clients in the past. And fortunately, this team also knows how to work with insurance companies and employer benefits programs so they can do a lot of the stick handling to help coordinate that funding for people. Uh so we really try to normalize this experience and take any sense of shame out of the conversation about their trauma so that they're going to feel comfortable to share with uh the assessment team as to you know what's going on.

Warren Berg 19:43

You mentioned shame. Tell us why somebody might experience what we call shame in a situation like this.

Cynthia Carels 19:49

You know, shame is actually very common, uh, and I, you know, don't mean to overgeneralize this, but especially with men who can be extremely reluctant to tell somebody that they're having nightmares, um, you know, or that they're afraid of driving. They just aren't used to feeling that vulnerable, and it's not something they really want a lot of people to know about. Uh, and there is still definitely a lot of stigma around mental health injuries. We're getting better, but there's still a lot of stigma around it, and many people would prefer to bottle these things up, uh, try to deal with it on their own uh rather than admit that they are struggling with these things.

SPEAKER_02 20:24

Aaron Ross Powell Yes, um, while some people may be successful with getting over trauma on their own without help, that's not the case for for everyone. So we want to make sure our clients know that needing treatment is not a sign of weakness. Uh instead, it's it's actually extremely brave to ask for help.

Warren Berg 20:44

So,

PTSD Signs Without The Stereotypes

Warren Berg 20:45

Phil, let's talk about PTSD because I think almost everybody has heard the term, but I don't know if everyone really understands what it means.

SPEAKER_02 20:53

I think that's fair, Warren. So PTSD, which stands for post-traumatic stress disorder, uh, is a medically recognized condition that can develop after someone uh goes through or or experiences or witnesses a traumatic event. Uh a lot of people might uh at first think about military veterans who have been known to experience a condition that we used to call uh shell shock. Uh given what many of them witnessed and endured firsthand, that's totally understandable. But PTSD can also develop after something like a serious motor vehicle uh accident or an industrial accident or a violent assault or or many other uh traumatic uh events. What are some of the signs? Well they they can vary a lot. Um some people have uh nightmares that recur, uh others have uh thoughts, uh intrusive thoughts that come out of nowhere and uh can really disrupt their lives. Some people will avoid places that remind them of

Warren Berg 22:20

Cynthia, is there maybe one symptom that doctors might look for?

Cynthia Carels 22:23

Not one exclusively, and and that's one of the many reasons that diagnosis actually belongs to healthcare professionals, not legal professionals. They're looking at the whole person, uh, they're not looking at just one symptom in isolation.

Warren Berg 22:36

So, Phil, maybe you can give us an example of what you might see when a client has PTSD.

SPEAKER_02 22:41

Uh sure. So imagine uh a father is driving his daughter home from soccer practice. Another vehicle uh runs through a stop sign and hits their vehicle uh right on his his driver's side door where he's uh sitting. Fortunately, both the dad and the daughter are physically okay, but the dad felt a deep sense of anxiety in his uh in his body about what could have happened if he or his daughter had been killed or really seriously injured in that accident. Uh month later, his daughter's excited about her next soccer season and has mostly put that accident out of her mind. The dad, though, decides to take a different uh route to get to the field, so he doesn't have to drive through that same intersection. Then he starts avoiding other busy intersections, and eventually, as time passes, he notices he's finding reasons not to really drive anywhere unless he absolutely has to. Those changes didn't happen overnight. They happened quite gradually.

Warren Berg 23:47

And he may not even notice that it's happening.

SPEAKER_02 23:49

Exactly. Sometimes he may be the last person to notice. He might even be aware uh of making uh uh choices uh well subconsciously. Uh he may be making subconscious choices for reasons he's not actually even aware of.

Cynthia Carels 24:05

Yeah, those kind of situations can actually make for some really interesting calls to my office. Uh uh sometimes it's actually a family member who picks up on the fact their loved one is doing unusual things or isn't acting like themselves after a collision, but uh the person themselves refuses to acknowledge that anything is wrong. And while many of those quirks might not become super problematic, sometimes they can actually rise to the level of what's known as maladaptive behaviors.

Warren Berg 24:32

And what is that?

Cynthia Carels 24:34

So maladaptive behaviors following trauma are actually unhealthy coping strategies that block a person from adjusting to their new reality. They often start as subconscious attempts to protect the mind and the body from overwhelming distress or to shut the noise of the nervous system down. But when it's left untreated, they can develop into pathologies all on their own, such as social isolation, uh, aggressive outbursts, sometimes substance abuse, and even things like self-sabotage. And people can really spiral when they're trying to self-manage a post-traumatic stress disorder.

Warren Berg 25:10

So, Cynthia,

Anxiety Depression And A Shrinking World

Warren Berg 25:11

when we hear the words stress and anxiety all the time, how is an anxiety disorder different than ordinary anxiety?

Cynthia Carels 25:19

You know, everyone experiences anxiety, you know, for before an exam, before a job interview, uh coming on the radio and doing public speaking, uh, all of that perfectly normal to have anxiety in those situations, but it's also usually temporary. Uh once that trigger is gone or over, that stress or anxiety usually relieves. But an anxiety disorder begins affecting everyday life, even when there is no clear trigger or imminent f uh threat. You know, people will stop traveling, they're gonna avoid shopping centers or decline invitations. They might even experience tight muscles and elevated heartbeats, you know, when the phone rings or someone just simply knocks on the door. And little by little their world becomes smaller.

Warren Berg 26:05

Their world becomes smaller. Why is that?

SPEAKER_02 26:08

Well, because uh clients often describe exactly that sort of thing. Now, maybe not in those words, but that's the reality they're living. Sometimes even getting out of bed can be overwhelming for them. So where does depression fit into all of this? Well, depression can also develop after trauma. People may lose interest in activities that they once loved, they might withdraw from friends, sleep differently, or have difficulty concentrating. These are not character flaws, they are symptoms of a medically recognized illness.

Warren Berg 26:41

And one of the things that is that that I've noticed is that both of you keep bringing up the discussion back to healthcare professionals.

Cynthia Carels 26:47

Yeah, that's quite deliberate because again, we're lawyers, not healthcare professionals. Uh doctors diagnose, uh, psychologists diagnose, psychiatrists diagnose. And one of the most important things that we can do is to encourage people to seek appropriate assessment, diagnosis, and treatment. And of course, as lawyers, it's also part of our job to help our clients understand the legal implications of failing to do so as well. So, what do you mean by that? So it's really twofold from a legal perspective.

Mitigation Duty And Why Records Matter

Cynthia Carels 27:16

Uh, first of all, the law does place an obligation on injured parties to take reasonable steps to mitigate their losses after an injury, or in other words, to do what they reasonably can to help themselves get better. So just like you'd be expected to, you know, wear a cast and do some physiotherapy after you break your foot, the court is going to expect people to follow reasonable advice to treat a mental health injury too. So that might involve things like, you know, perhaps avoiding screens or bright lights following a concussion or seeking medical advice from a psychiatrist to treat an anxiety disorder. That could include things like taking some medications and maybe attending some counseling. And if an injured person refuses to do those things that most people would consider to be reasonable under the circumstances, then a court might hold that injured person responsible for failing to mitigate their losses. So that's a legal term that we refer to quite often. And that can have very real financial consequences because it can result in deductions from a victim's overall compensation award. So that's one element of failing to mitigate. But the second implication of failing to treat an injury is that it can actually delegitimize a client's complaint. It can be, you know, hard enough to get a defendant or an insurance company to take a mental health complaint seriously in the absence of objective evidence like an MRI. But when a person doesn't do anything to actually treat it, that tends to lead to some assumptions that the problem must not really be all that bad. Now, on the flip side, when someone actively engages in in treatment, that tends to lead to the generation of medical records. And those records are really useful pieces of evidence for us to lean on when we're trying to build our arguments regarding the impact of an injury on our client's life. They will not only typically include remarks regarding the person's complaints on any given day, but they're also going to reflect the treatment provider's uh independent observations that day, along with their assessment of what's going on and the treatment plan. And that can give us really great overview of sort of the ebbs and flows of our client's recovery over time, along with proof that they were actually taking reasonable steps to try and get better.

Warren Berg 29:34

So, Phil, what does that treatment usually involve? Well, uh it depends. There it is. I was wondering how long we would be here before. I got one of you to say those words.

Cynthia Carels 29:43

Ding ding ding, yep.

SPEAKER_02 29:44

That's an occupational hazard for lawyers. Uh I walk right into that. But but it it really does depend. Many people begin with their family physician. Uh some are referred to psychologists, some to psychiatrists, some people will benefit from counseling, uh, some will benefit from medication, and many will benefit from a combination. Uh but there's no single formula.

Cynthia Carels 30:07

Yeah, and recovery isn't usually a straight line either. People will have good weeks, then difficult weeks. Sometimes they can go for months feeling pretty good uh before a trigger sets them back again. And that doesn't necessarily mean the treatment isn't working. Uh that progress often happens gradually over time.

SPEAKER_02 30:22

I I think that's a very important point. People can become discouraged because yesterday they felt better than they do today. Recovery is going to have its ups and downs, and but that doesn't mean you're back where you started.

Warren Berg 30:35

Okay, can I see if I'm understanding something? When we started today's program, I think I was looking at recovery as maybe a destination. But listening to both of you, it it sounds more like recovery is really a series of small victories that can be peppered with setbacks too. Am I am I hearing you correctly?

SPEAKER_02 30:52

I I think you've captured it perfectly, Warren. Recovery often isn't marked by one single event. It's marked by ordinary moments that return over time. So being able to drive somewhere without fear, or sleeping through the night, or meeting with friends for coffee, or watching your child's hockey game without overwhelming anxiety. These are all things that sound ordinary, but after trauma, they can feel extraordinary once you're able to do them again.

Warren Berg 31:22

Cynthia?

Cynthia Carels 31:23

Yeah, every person's milestones are different. That's why comparing recoveries again rarely helps. Uh measuring your progress against where you were, uh, as opposed to where somebody else is, is considerably more helpful.

Warren Berg 31:36

Phil, here's one question I imagine that some of our listeners are asking themselves when it comes to some of these psychological injuries. Can't I just tough it up?

SPEAKER_02 31:44

Oh, we we hear that all the time, and there's nothing wrong with resilience, but resilience and seeking treatment aren't necessarily opposites or inconsistent with one another. If you broke your ankle, nobody would admire you for refusing to see a doctor. Mental health deserves exactly that same kind of respect.

Cynthia Carels 32:03

Yeah, I I might say it a little differently. Uh one of the strongest things that a person can do is recognizing when they need help and actually asking for it. That is not weakness, that is taking your recovery seriously.

SPEAKER_02 32:16

I completely agree, Cynthia. Sometimes asking for help is actually going to be the first step toward getting your life back.

Warren Berg 32:23

So if somebody wants to ask for help, how can they get a hold of you?

SPEAKER_02 32:26

Uh the easiest way is to check out our website at we're bowen.com. That's W E I R B O W E N dot com. Uh, once you're on the website, you can fill out our contact us form with a bit of information about your question, and our intake team will forward that on to a lawyer who can help.

Cynthia Carels 32:49

Yeah, and people can also call into our office during regular business hours with their questions. We have people who are ready and able to gather some preliminary information from you, and then they'll get you set up uh uh and connected with an appropriate lawyer. So our phone number to the main line uh is 780-424-2030 Monday to Friday.

Warren Berg 33:08

You're listening to Ask the Lawyer on the Windspeaker Radio Network, CFWE and CJWE. I'm your host, Warren Berg. Today, along with Phil Kerman and uh Cynthia Carrolls of Weird Bowen LLP, you can find them once again online at Wearbowen.com or by phone 780-424-2030. And today we've been talking about mental health injuries like PTSD, anxiety, depression, and why getting appropriate medical care is so important.

When To Call A Lawyer

Warren Berg 33:38

So now let's maybe turn to the legal side of today's discussion. Phil, when should somebody actually contact a lawyer?

SPEAKER_02 33:45

Well, usually earlier than people think, not because we're trying to start lawsuits, but because good information helps people make good decisions. One of the biggest uh mistakes or misconceptions is that calling a lawyer means you've already decided to sue someone. It doesn't. Uh often it's simply an opportunity uh for you to understand your rights, to understand the process, and then to decide what makes sense for you.

Cynthia Carels 34:12

Yeah, absolutely. And sometimes people leave that first meeting without hiring anyone at all. And that is perfectly fine. By no means are we ever going to try to, you know, high pressure tactic someone into litigation. But if a potential client leaves with a clearer understanding of their situation and their rights, then we consider that to be a productive meeting. It's not something we're charging for. Uh, and people are often surprised that there isn't any pressure.

Warren Berg 34:36

So the first meeting isn't sign here and let's head to court.

SPEAKER_02 34:39

No, not not even close, Warren. Uh in fact, if someone comes in expecting that, they're usually surprised. The first meeting is mostly about listening.

Cynthia Carels 34:48

Yeah, it's also about reassurance. You know, people often apologize because they think they're forgetting details, and one of the first things I tell them is uh you don't have to remember everything today. It's okay.

SPEAKER_02 34:58

That's true. And and I probably stole that line from Cynthia years ago.

Cynthia Carels 35:02

At least you admitted stealing this time.

Warren Berg 35:05

So, Phil, uh walk us through this. Uh maybe somebody walks into Weirbo and LLP for their first meeting. What actually happens?

SPEAKER_02 35:11

Well, usually we'll start with a very simple question, and that is tell me what happened. And it's totally up to the client uh to choose where they want to start. And it's not just about the accident, though. We're also going to want you to tell us about your life before the accident. Uh tell me what's different now. People often assume that we're only interested in the collision itself, but really we're trying to understand how how their life has changed.

Warren Berg 35:37

Cynthia, what kind of things are you asking about?

Cynthia Carels 35:40

So some people are actually quite surprised by our questions. Uh, because I'll ask things like, you know, what hobbies have you stopped doing? Are you sleeping okay? How are things at work? Um, how has your family been affected? And those might seem like small questions, but they're not. They are often the questions that give me the kind of information I need to know about explaining that injury the best.

SPEAKER_02 36:02

Exactly, exactly. Talking about the accident might last 30 seconds, but understanding the impact, the effect takes much longer.

Cynthia Carels 36:11

And in situations involving mental health injuries, it can also be really helpful to have a close family member come along to that first meeting if you're comfortable with that. Obviously, we want to maintain your privacy. Uh, but as we discussed earlier, it's not always easy for people with cognitive or emotional injuries to fully appreciate what's been going on. But close family members, they have a ringside seat to those changes. They also knew the person before and they have firsthand knowledge of what's different after a trauma. Uh, in fact, the family member might even be the one who has had to step up and handle a mental load that they never otherwise would have been burdened with had this traumatic event not happened. Uh, so I have seen a lot of uh, you know, a very broad range of coping strategies in situations like this uh from spouses who now have to set up multiple reminders in their partner's iPhone to make sure that they show up to appointments, um, all the way up to family members who like literally will be disconnecting appliances in their house before they leave to make sure their loved one doesn't actually start a fire due to their forgetfulness. Uh, and of course, in situations where a loved one has sustained a very serious traumatic brain injury, there is often a long list of physical injuries there as well. So, you know, it's not unusual for families to keep a journal at a bedside table in the hospital as a way for everyone to keep track of all of this information in one place. So having a family member join us for that first meeting and, you know, perhaps bring in those journals or their recollections can be tremendously helpful.

Warren Berg 37:42

If somebody's

Capacity Concerns And Legal Supports

Warren Berg 37:43

psychological injuries are so bad that they need a family member to attend meetings with their lawyer, are they even able to bring a lawsuit? Now I would uh assume that there are a lot of difficult decisions that they would have to make, and that might be simply more than they can handle under the circumstances, no?

SPEAKER_02 38:01

That's actually an a really excellent question, and it's one that can be uh really sensitive for families, especially when they're dealing with uh a loved one's uh cognitive capabilities, a loved one's mind that's been perhaps uh seriously uh compromised or affected. As lawyers, we have a professional obligation to really watch carefully as to whether our clients are able to understand, first of all, what we're telling them, and secondly, what are the reasonably foreseeable consequences of any decisions that they they will need to make.

Cynthia Carels 38:40

Yeah, but as we've said many times today, we aren't actually qualified to assess someone's cognitive capacity. But thankfully, there are experts known as certified capacity assessors who can uh include doctors, psychologists, um, some specially certified nurses, social workers, occupational therapists, uh, and these people can conduct standardized capacity evaluations. And if our client is found not to have mental capacity regarding legal uh decisions, Alberta's rules of court actually require that person to have a litigation representative to act on their behalf and take responsibility for the lawsuit. And in many cases, if a brain injury is that serious, the individual is likely going to require a lot of help, uh, not only with legal issues, but financial and medical ones as well. And in those cases, it might actually be appropriate for someone to get advice with respect to obtaining formal legal decision-making authority, uh, such as um a guardianship and trusteeship order. And we do have lawyers at Weirbowen who can help with those processes as well.

Warren Berg 39:40

Aaron Powell And I would imagine that we could probably dedicate a whole other show to that.

Cynthia Carels 39:43

Oh my goodness, yes. Uh it can be a very delicate issue for families to navigate, especially if their loved one has, you know, one of those psychological injuries that they're in denial about or perhaps don't even recognize. Uh and thankfully here in Alberta, we do have a bit of a spectrum of supports in situations like this because frequently there is not a super bright line between the day someone has mental capacity and the day they lose it. Uh, like we've alluded to before, mental capacity can have some ups and downs. Uh, some days might be fine and others not so great. So if someone has done advanced planning with, let's say, an enduring power of attorney document, it might set might make sense to get that activated. Um, but if not, there might be room for other instruments to aid an individual with a mental health injury with something like supported decision making or a more formalized application to have someone become the injured person's trustee. So there is a lot to think about, and consulting with a lawyer who has expertise in that area is strongly recommended. And I'm thankful at least a couple times a year that we have some lawyers at Weirbowen who have supported a number of my clients and their families after those kinds of life-changing injuries.

Warren Berg 40:51

So,

Insurance Myths Evidence And Social Media

Warren Berg 40:52

Phil, let me ask something that some of our listeners might be thinking. People sometimes say, Well, of course, lawyers encourage lawsuits. That's how lawyers earn a living. How do you respond to that?

SPEAKER_02 41:02

Well, I think that's a fair question. Um, our responsibility is to give honest advice. So sometimes that means telling someone they have a strong legal claim, uh, but sometimes it means telling them that they don't. Sometimes it means saying that it's simply too early to know. People deserve honest answers, of course, even when those answers aren't what they hope to hear.

Cynthia Carels 41:23

Yeah, and some of the most important advice we can give really isn't legal advice at all. Sometimes it's things like just keep seeing your doctor and continuing your treatment, uh, and then let's understand your recovery and your injuries before making big legal decisions. Uh, because recovery just doesn't happen on a litigation timetable uh as inconvenient as that might be for us in some cases.

SPEAKER_02 41:44

Yeah, I totally I totally agree. That the legal process should support recovery, but it shouldn't drive it.

Warren Berg 41:49

Okay. Another question. Should people be afraid of insurance companies?

SPEAKER_02 41:54

Uh I don't think afraid is the right word. Insurance companies have a job to do, and we have a different job. Their role is to investigate and assess claims. Our role is to advise our clients, protect their interests, and to help them navigate the legal process.

Cynthia Carels 42:08

Aaron Powell And that's another reason why documentation matters so much. Uh those good medical treatment records help everyone to understand what's actually happening.

Warren Berg 42:16

You've both mentioned medical records a few times today.

Cynthia Carels 42:19

Why are they so important? Well, you know, because they are created for treatment purposes. Your physician isn't writing notes because they have a personal interest in a lawsuit, but they are independently documenting your health, your compliance with treatment, uh, and the recall results of that treatment over time. So those records really help to tell the story of your recovery through, you know, the ups and the downs.

SPEAKER_02 42:43

I sometimes compare it to putting together a puzzle. One piece doesn't tell you very much, but as more pieces are added, the picture becomes a lot clearer.

Warren Berg 42:51

Can you maybe give us an example of how these puzzle pieces all fit together?

SPEAKER_02 42:56

Sure. Uh imagine someone who's volunteered every Wednesday evening for years. After a serious accident, they quietly stop volunteering. Uh then they stop meeting friends for coffee, then they stop attending family gatherings, then they get uh tearful when they go to see their doctor, when that's never happened before. And their doctor might prescribe a medication to help manage their mood, but it just makes them sleepy, so they stop taking it. And the next time they go back to their doctor, they start crying again, feeling like a failure because they only took the pills for a few days before giving up. The doctor notes the problem and changes the dose to one per night to support their sleep. And although that helped, they still felt foggy the next day. Each change on its own seems to be relatively small, and uh maybe not taking medication could be seen as a failure to follow treatment recommendations, but taken together they tell a much bigger story about life, how life has changed and why some things might not have worked out as as they hoped.

Warren Berg 43:55

And those are the kinds of things that people sometimes forget to mention?

Cynthia Carels 43:59

Oh yeah. People often tell us, oh, I didn't think that mattered. You know, when we're read reading through the medical notes and we see something like that, I pick up the phone and go, hey, uh refresh your memory about this. And they go, Oh yeah, uh I didn't think that mattered, but maybe it it does. So when we look retrospectively through those medical notes, we can often find a lot of explanations about what our clients were going through, perhaps why they couldn't do things, and even why they were unable to tolerate certain treatments that might have been recommended.

Warren Berg 44:28

Okay, so let's try something different. Although we don't actually have a listener mailbag here on Ask the Lawyer, let's imagine we've opened one anyways. We'll do some quick questions and quick answers. Are you ready? Let's do it. Should I keep a journal?

Cynthia Carels 44:43

Yeah, many people find that actually very helpful. Uh, not because the law requires it, but because, you know, six months down the road, it can be surprisingly difficult to remember exactly when things happened.

Warren Berg 44:53

How about this one? Can I post about my accident on social media?

SPEAKER_02 44:57

I'd encourage people to think carefully before posting. Social media captures uh curated moments that people choose to share. It rarely captures the context.

Cynthia Carels 45:08

Yeah, I I warn my clients that social media is a private investigator that never sleeps.

SPEAKER_02 45:13

Another question: will I have to go to court? Usually not. Most personal injury cases resolve without trial. If a trial becomes necessary, we'll prepare our clients carefully. Nobody is going to go through that process alone.

Warren Berg 45:27

Another question: how long will my case take?

Cynthia Carels 45:30

I think you know Phil's answer to this one.

SPEAKER_02 45:32

Do you?

Cynthia Carels 45:33

Uh it depends. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 45:36

Cynthia has worked with me long enough. Uh, but it really does depend. Uh, one thing we don't want to do is resolve a case before we understand the long-term medical picture.

Cynthia Carels 45:45

And we do try to establish reasonable expectations from the get-go because we don't want clients to be surprised or frustrated when we get, you know, two years down the road and their claim hasn't settled yet. Uh sometimes it can actually take a year or two for our clients' injuries to even stabilize before we can start getting experts to predict what the future holds.

Warren Berg 46:03

Okay, one final rapid-fire question from the imaginary listener mailbag. Phil, if there was one thing you wish every new client understood before walking through your door, what would it be?

SPEAKER_02 46:14

That would be that they don't need to have everything figured out. You don't need every document, you don't need every answer, you don't even need to know whether you have a legal claim. That's part of what the first meeting is for. Come with your questions, and together we'll figure out what your options are. Cynthia?

Cynthia Carels 46:29

Uh mine would be this don't apologize. Uh if you're emotional, you know, people will sometimes say, Oh, I'm so sorry, that I'm crying. Uh there is nothing to apologize for. Uh, you're coming and talking about uh one of the most difficult experiences of your life.

SPEAKER_02 46:44

I think that's exactly right, Cynthia. Sometimes the most important thing uh we can accomplish in that first meeting isn't giving legal advice, it's making sure someone leaves feeling that they've been heard.

Warren Berg 46:54

This is Ask the Lawyer on the Windspeaker Radio Network, CFWE and CJWE. I'm your host, Warren Berg, along with Phil Kerman and Cynthia Carrolls from Wearbowen, LLP and Edmonton. Today we've spent a lot of the program talking about psychological and mental health injuries, how they're diagnosed, how they're treated, and how the legal process

Recovery As Small Wins Over Time

Warren Berg 47:14

works. I'd like to spend the next segment talking about something that might even be more important, uh recovery. Phil, what does recovery actually look like? Because I suspect it isn't one dramatic moment.

SPEAKER_02 47:27

I usually it isn't, Warren. People sometimes picture recovery as crossing a finish line. One day you're injured, the next day you're recovered. Real life rarely works like that. Recovery is usually made up of dozens of small victories, like sleeping through the night, driving again, or meeting with friends for coffee, or even laughing without forcing yourself. Those moments don't sound dramatic, but they can mean everything to the person experiencing them.

Warren Berg 47:50

And Cynthia, I noticed that you were nodding while Phil was talking.

Cynthia Carels 47:53

Yeah, you know, that's exactly what we see. Sometimes clients don't even recognize that they're making progress. You know, they're understandably focused on what they still can't do, but you know, it is really easy to overlook what they've already regained. Can you maybe give me one example? Yeah, for sure. So someone might tell me, you know, I'm so frustrated because I'm still nervous driving downtown. Um, and then I might ask them, well, are you driving to the grocery store again? Yes. Uh are you taking your kids to school again? Yes. And then I'll remind them, you know, when we first met, you weren't driving anywhere. And sometimes people need someone else externally to remind them of how far they have actually already come. Uh in the world of occupational therapists, they sometimes call this progressive goal attainment. And that's actually built into therapy for some psychological injuries. The OTs are really intentional about pausing to reflect on that progress, uh, to celebrate those wins instead of focusing on how much of the mountain is left ahead to climb.

SPEAKER_02 48:56

And I think that's true of life in general. We naturally measure ourselves against where we want to be, and sometimes it's worth stopping for a moment and looking at where we started.

Warren Berg 49:06

And am I correct to assume that returning to work is one of the biggest milestones that people are thinking about?

SPEAKER_02 49:12

Absolutely. And not just because of income. For many people, work provides a routine, a purpose, provides friendships, a sense of identity. Returning to work can be exciting, but but it can also be intimidating.

Cynthia Carels 49:24

You know, sometimes people think returning to work is an all or nothing decision, but it usually isn't. Uh some people begin with perhaps reduced hours or modified duties, um, and others are gonna just need more time. Every recovery again is different.

SPEAKER_02 49:38

Yeah, that that's an important point. Uh people sometimes feel they've failed if they can't go back exactly the way they were before. Recovery doesn't work like that. Progress often comes in stages. Can you give us maybe another example? Okay. Uh imagine an electrician uh whose work requires driving all over the city. Right after a serious uh collision, his physical injuries heal well. But every time he emerges onto the Anthony Hende drive, his heart starts to race, he starts taking side roads, uh jobs take longer, eventually he starts uh turning down work that's across town. His abilities haven't changed, but his confidence has. Now with treatment and some intentional progressive exposure to driving longer distances, many people improve significantly. But it usually happens gradually.

Warren Berg 50:26

And I can imagine how frustrating that might be.

SPEAKER_02 50:28

It surely can be. One thing we hear is I I I I know this doesn't make sense, uh uh people will say, but but psychological injuries don't always feel logical to the person experiencing them. And that's one reason professional treatment is so important. Uh they can definitely help sort out the self-doubt that's just basically noise from the self-doubt that's actively holding someone back and provide some practical strategies to overcome it.

Warren Berg 50:54

Cynthia, what role might employers play when an injured person is trying to return to work after a trauma?

Cynthia Carels 50:59

Well, thankfully, employment law and human resources professionals have made a big difference in this area over the last few decades. And good employers generally want to set their employees up for success after returning from an injury. So now many employers will provide graduated return to work strategies. Uh could look like modified duties, uh flexible scheduling, time off for employ uh for appointments, um, and even those employee assistant programs with mental health resources that they can connect with 24-7. Uh so those accommodations and those supports can make a big difference.

SPEAKER_02 51:35

Yes, um I I would add one thing. People sometimes hesitate to have honest conversations with their employer because they're worried about being judged. And it's true that every workplace is different, and unfortunately, uh not all employers are keeping up with the times, and there are still can be some cultures that have no capacity uh for much empathy, but where appropriate good communication often produces much better results than people would expect.

Family Support Empathy And Returning To Work

Warren Berg 52:02

We've talked a lot about the injured person today, but uh what about their families? How do they factor into all this conversation?

SPEAKER_02 52:09

Oh yes, uh families experience the injury in their own ways and the recovery too. A spouse might suddenly become the driver. A parent may disengage, pull back from experiences that used to bring the family joy. They might feel like they're walking around on eggshells uh with a person who's now prone to emotional outbursts or overreacting to even normal household noises. Children notice changes even when adults think they're hiding them. Recovery often involves the the whole family.

Warren Berg 52:39

What advice might you find yourself giving to a family member?

Cynthia Carels 52:43

Well, uh, you know, usually not to put pressure on themselves to actually fix everything. Uh people often think that they have to say just exactly the right thing. Uh usually they don't. There's often more magic in listening um, you know, than talking anyways. So, you know, being patient, uh supporting someone when they're struggling with their treatment setbacks, uh sometimes those things are the greatest gifts you can give to someone.

SPEAKER_02 53:07

I I totally agree, Cynthia. You you don't always need the perfect words. Sometimes just showing up is enough.

Cynthia Carels 53:12

Yeah, I I often think about an illustration that uh the author Brene Brown uses to explain sort of the core difference between empathy and sympathy in situations like this. So she describes someone down in sort of a metaphorical pit of despair, with someone just looking down from the top of the pit, saying, Hey, too bad you're down there. Um but look on the bright side, at least you're not dead. Um and that kind of sympathy has a lot of words, but it doesn't actually do a lot to help. Uh conversely, though, she describes someone else just coming upon the scene who says nothing at all, but instead just climbs down to sit next to their person in the dark without trying to fix anything or silverline the struggles. Um, just being there with them, providing that empathetic presence so they're not experiencing that pit alone, that can be of tremendous help.

Warren Berg 54:04

Phil, after all of these years, what's the hardest conversation you have?

SPEAKER_02 54:08

Um, usually it's when someone asks, when will I be completely better? I wish I could answer that. Healthcare professionals often can't answer it either. Recovery doesn't follow a calendar.

Cynthia Carels 54:19

Mine's a bit different, but it's often, you know, conversations about guilt. Even though those traumas aren't their fault, people think they are still letting down their family or disappointing their employer. And helping someone understand that recovery isn't a personal failure is one of the more important conversations we can have.

SPEAKER_02 54:36

That's absolutely true. People can be a lot harder on themselves than anyone else's.

Warren Berg 54:42

So you've both been doing this for a long time. What have your clients taught you, Phil?

SPEAKER_02 54:48

Uh, resilience. I've met people who face challenges I honestly can't imagine. But they kept moving forward, not because it was easy, but because they refused to let one terrible day define the rest of their lives. And watching that changes you.

Cynthia Carels 55:03

Cynthia? Uh mine would be the incredible value and virtue of patience. Uh recovery rarely happens as quickly as anyone would want, but clients have taught me to celebrate progress, even when it comes just one baby step at a time.

Warren Berg 55:15

It's interesting. You're you're giving different answers, but I don't think that you're disagreeing.

SPEAKER_02 55:20

I uh no, I I don't I don't think we are. Resilience uh usually requires patience.

Cynthia Carels 55:25

And patience tends to become easier when you actually begin noticing progress.

SPEAKER_02 55:29

Exactly.

Warren Berg 55:30

Phil, if I asked you 25 years ago what success looked like, what would your answer have been different than no?

SPEAKER_02 55:38

Uh absolutely. Earlier in my career, I probably would have talked about settlements or courtroom results. Uh today I'd answer it very differently. Success is hearing someone say, I drove on the Hyde again, I went camping with my family, or I slept through the night. Those conversations stay with me. Cynthia?

Cynthia Carels 55:56

Yeah, it's a tough one because it's rare that bringing a claim to resolution actually fixes anything for anyone. Uh they may be able to put their lawsuit behind them and close that chapter of their life, but the injuries might still linger and and alter their lives forever. But when I have a client say they're learning how to thrive in their new normal with the information and the resources we've given them through the process of their lawsuit, uh, that's what I find deeply uh and professionally satisfying. And, you know, along the way, we might have connected our clients with experts and assistive technologies or treatment plans that they never would have known about had they not come to us for help. Uh but through our involvement and the resources we've facilitated for them, they've learned how to manage in their new realities. And and when I can close a file knowing that my client is going to be okay despite all that they've gone through, I'd say that's that's success.

SPEAKER_02 56:47

Absolutely. I could not agree more.

Cynthia Carels 56:49

And, you know, I'm not gonna lie, those final meetings can get emotional on both sides of the table when we're saying goodbye. We get to know our clients very, very well, and on occasional uh you know, I'll get a really great hug from a client that reminds me why we show up and do this kind of work every day.

Warren Berg 57:04

Aaron Powell I've noticed something today that neither of you seems particularly interested in. Well, talking about yourselves, you're pretty focused on framing things through the impact on the clients.

SPEAKER_02 57:14

I think that's another occupational hazard, uh, Warren. Lawyers are trained to ask questions uh not so much to talk about themselves.

Cynthia Carels 57:21

Yeah, Phil especially. He's much happier uh asking questions than answering them.

SPEAKER_02 57:25

Well, that's because answering them means someone might interrupt you.

Warren Berg 57:28

Now you're learning what it's like to be interviewed. So before we wrap up today, if somebody listening thinks maybe I should speak with a lawyer, what would you tell them, Phil?

Final Advice And How To Reach Us

SPEAKER_02 57:38

I tell them not to be intimidated or scared. You don't need to know whether you even have a case. That's part of what the first meeting is for. Bring the information you have, bring your questions, bring your documents. Uh we'll listen, we'll explain the process. Together we'll figure out what your options are. Uh sometimes the answer is you have a strong legal claim, sometimes it isn't, but you'll leave with better information uh than you came in with.

Warren Berg 58:01

Cynthia, anything to add?

Cynthia Carels 58:03

Uh just this. Don't worry about saying exactly the right thing. Uh people sometimes apologize because they're emotional or because they can't remember every detail. Uh, please don't worry about that. You're talking about one of the most difficult experiences of your life, and our job is to help, not to judge. Uh, and it's also one of the big reasons why we do this show on Ask the Lawyer, because we actually want the audience to hear our voices, uh to get to know us a little bit, and to hopefully feel like, you know, we're approachable people who not only know the law, but also understand how to make our clients feel comfortable and safe with us.

SPEAKER_02 58:38

And sometimes the most important thing that happens in that first meeting isn't legal advice at all. It's that someone finally feels heard. Recovery is possible. You don't have to go through it alone. And asking for help is often the strongest first step you can take.

Warren Berg 58:53

Phil, thank you very much for joining us here on your first appearance on Ask the Lawyer. I have a feeling it won't be your last.

SPEAKER_02 59:00

Well, thank you, Lauren. I've really enjoyed the conversation.

Warren Berg 59:03

And once again, we've covered a lot of ground here in the August edition of Ask the Lawyer. If you would like to find out more about We'Bowen LLP, or if you have questions about your legal rights following an accident, uh you you can call them at 780-424-2030, or you can visit them online at Weirbowen.com. Once again, that's W-E-I-R-B-O-W-EN.com, where you can set up a consultation or even access prior episodes of Ask the Lawyer. And my thanks once again, Phil Kierman and Cynthia Carroll of We'Bowen LLP for joining us today. Absolutely our pleasure. I'm your host, Warren Berg, and we look forward to learning much more through this series, which takes place on the last Saturday of every month, right here on Win Speaker Radio, CFWE and CJWE.